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  • Topic: EWWWWWW ~ he has a TAILLLLLLLLL

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    • March 1, 2012 2:31 PM CST

      So I didn't read this all because it was getting kind of ugly, my take:


      The reason the handler is asking to have the tail docked is so the dog will win.  He makes his money on the show plus bonus if the dog takes his class/etc.  A dog with what the judges want to see will be put up.  Slanted back shepherds, bulldogs who can't mate naturally, etc.  


      IF she owner/handles then the tail won't be a problem.  Without getting into a crazy debate or someone arguing their pet is "free" (really? you feed them, don't let them mate, you confine them but they're as "wild as can be" riiiight) HOW is a judge to judge your dogs tail against the breed standard?  If the AKC standard suggests the tail to be docked does the dog naturally have a curly tail? how is it to be groomed? How long? Breeders of goldens or setters breed for a specific tail no more than a specific head, if you simply chop off the tail then nobody worries about tails do they?  Or ears, boxers with natural ears are very handsome but you are rolling the dice if you don't crop to get a nice natural set.  


      We are groomers, how can we sit there and look down at show people when many groomers dye dogs, cut them into completely "unnatural" ways only to have them come back to us matted or unkempt?  Do not throw stones in glass houses, if you actually spent time in the show world there are bad people and good people.  Some breeds are more catty then others, if your friend wants a natural tail on her dog and is happy spending more time/money on handling fees then god bless.  Show people didn't create the AKC standard, and we can't point to Europe when frankly it's a different breed club all together.


      last thought:  How many of you people spay/neuter (and yes, it is the same, you are still doing an unnessisary surgery taking out sex organs instead of keeping an eye on your pet... all my pets are spayed/neutered btw), your pets, wax your eyebrows or color your hair or worse yet how many of your husbands/sons are circumcised?  Its all a personal choice, I don't judge and I need to shut up but I am so tired of show people being put down, if you're not in the world its easy to judge, when you see people spend $15,000 trying to finish a natural eared bitch only for her to be sterile you understand why they do "crazy" things.

      repost, I think my spell check is acting funny. :(

    • March 1, 2012 7:22 PM CST

      It is not our place to tell someone what they are doing with THEIR pet is right or wrong. We all want our opinions to be respected and we all need to respect others opinions as well. Everyone does what they do with their pets for their own reasons. The same could be said about coloring your dogs hair or cutting it off when the "need" it. Making your dog stand on the grooming table for hours being tortured. There are people out there who believe grooming a dog is horrible and should be stopped. This was one stance by PETA one year at the Westminster dog show, Go Figure. The ear cropping/tail docking/declawing topics will never be agreed by all upon. We can all be polite and understand that we all have our own reasons why we believe the way we do. 


      As for the Bouve, why not owner handle him? I show my own dogs and it has been a great learning experience and enjoyable endeavor! I would totally let her know she can do it herself and then tail or not tail, it won't matter. She will have to research which judges will put up a tailed dog in a mostly docked ring. But I am sure they are out there. Right now I myself have a blue merle pom whom I am trying to decide to show or not because of the same reason. I hope she does show him herself and she is able to finish him! Nothing like your own, owner finished champion!!!

    • March 2, 2012 3:01 AM CST

      Erin, please tell that to the people in Canada who are working, successfully, to ban cropping & docking here. We have two or three provinces who have caved in already & most likely more to come. I am not happy to be Canadian right now
      You stop learning you stop growing, stop growing you stagnate and die
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    • March 2, 2012 6:13 AM CST

      That is very unfortunate but I am sure just because it was banned not everyone agrees with it. Just like yourself. While I understand both side of the arguement I don't think it is anyones right to take away my right to choose what I do with MY dog. And weather or not you agree I am sure you would not want me telling you what to do with YOUR dog. 

    • March 2, 2012 7:04 AM CST

      I believe it's time to put this post to rest. :)


      Catsmom, please keep us updated on her show progress. If anyone has comments related to that, please share. Any more about  pros and cons or likes and dislikes of cropping, docking, riding, coloring, circumcision, etc etc does not need to be posted here.


      Thank you



      If you don't go after what you want, you'll never have it. If you don't ask, the answer is always no. If you don't step forward, you're always in the same place.

    • March 2, 2012 6:45 PM CST

      "Tail is to be docked, leaving 2 or 3 vertebrae. It must be set high and align normally with the spinal column. Preferably carried upright in motion. Dogs born tailless should not be penalized."  "Ears placed high and alert. If cropped, they are to be a triangular contour and in proportion to the size of the head. The inner corner of the ear should be in line with the outer corner of the eye. Ears that are too low or too closely set are serious faults." from AKC Standard... for Bouvier..

      I prefer cropped and docked and feel it should be each individuals choice.. We can not let them take away our choices.. It is also the breed clubs choice to write the breed standard..

    • The following users say thanks to vtbouvs for this useful post:
    • March 5, 2012 10:29 PM CST

      rubymom said:

      Ahhh.... might ask the same question to the NDGAA when they require a docked tail on Poodles in Grooming Competition. Unfortunately Oliver cannot be shown AKC as the Standard requires the tail to be docked. I wish it were otherwise he is a beautiful dog. 

      I have an answer to the NDGAA question as I just asked this myself.  It can be done Smile  I also checked with Intergroom and they will also allow me to compete with my undocked boy. 

    • March 13, 2012 11:49 PM CDT

      Wait a second folks.. this dog is showable here. it was Whelped overseas not here in America where the standard requires that the tail be docked.  I know of several imported dogs that the AKC standard states docked tail and the dog was born in Europe, the tail was NOT done and they are Championed here. One such dog is Kathy Kirk's dog "LT" a liver and white English Springer Spainel who was whelped in Europe and sent here to get his American championship. So have your friend talk to another professional handler and she needs to  remind the handler that the dog is an imported dog. That is the key to showing this dog here in AKC shows unless the owner handles the dog herself.


      Good luck.



      As for horses they are a domesticated creature, not a wild animal that is tamed... all the "wild horses in America" are in fact feral. Even the ones that are on islands on our coast line. They are from shipwrecks and swam to shore and survived. Heck we even at one point had camels that were feral in the New Mexico/ Arizona deserts they escaped.

    • March 22, 2012 11:04 PM CDT

      I recently purchased 2 std poo pups they are 14 weeks and do not have docked tails.  I want to use them for grooming competitions.  I made an apt to have the tails docked next week.  I think it would be better to do it while they are out than without anyhting like they do when they are nly days old.  This is such a dilema for me.  My beautiful big boy Sampson has his tail it it makes him look so regal:)


      I groom, therefore I am.

    • March 23, 2012 6:43 AM CDT

      Have you checked to see if the shows are still holding to the docked tail rule?

      Times are changing. I think if they have not already, they will be soon too.





      If you don't go after what you want, you'll never have it. If you don't ask, the answer is always no. If you don't step forward, you're always in the same place.

    • March 23, 2012 11:08 PM CDT

      If some butthead had hit my dog, they'd have been pickin' him up off the floor. Just sayin'.
      "Few who have never served their country will ever understand a soldier's heart.". Gen H. Norman Schwarzkoph
    • November 21, 2014 4:42 PM CST

      Catsmom, is there an update for this guy? I'd love to know he's doing some winning with his full tail.




      If you don't go after what you want, you'll never have it. If you don't ask, the answer is always no. If you don't step forward, you're always in the same place.

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